Author Topic: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch  (Read 1878 times)

treinbert

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Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« on: March 22, 2017, 03:47:24 PM »
Hi,

I have a Renkforce RF 100 3D-printer. It does not have a heated bed.
Up to now it was printing very well. I am using CURA to slice the object.
I am trying to print a larger object, but after the printer has printed about half (reaching about 1 to 1,5 inch height) the printed object breaks loose from the bed.
I have tried with brim and without, but both fail.
What could be the cause?
Hartelijke groeten/Best regards/Freundlichen Gruessen,
Bert Mengerink

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 04:03:20 PM »
What material is the bed made of?

What kind of filament are you using? PLA or ABS?
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treinbert

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2017, 04:28:28 PM »
Hi Ralph,

I am using kapton tape and PLA at 210 degrees Celsius.
Hartelijke groeten/Best regards/Freundlichen Gruessen,
Bert Mengerink

Prusa I3 clone
Renkforce RF100,
500mW, 2500mW and 3500mW laser
Benbox A3 to be used with above lasers
Own build A0 with Z-axis with the same lasers
Proxon converted CNC cutter
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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2017, 04:31:10 PM »
What is your bed made of?
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treinbert

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 04:36:50 PM »
The bed itself is made of glass with three ring magnets glued to the back. They click onto three screws, which come out of the frame of the Z-support.

By the way the printer comes complete assembled in a box.
The maximum print size is 10 by 10 by 10 cm.
Look at https://www.conrad.nl/nl/renkforce-rf100-3d-printer-incl-filament-1507428.html?WT.mc_id=gshop&insert=8J&gclid=CKyA7sej69ICFVYz0wod_m8OVQ&tid=211354628_17335160228_aud-271263749209:pla-281727396602_pla-1507428&WT.srch=1

I have printed several objects without any problems thusfar.
Hartelijke groeten/Best regards/Freundlichen Gruessen,
Bert Mengerink

Prusa I3 clone
Renkforce RF100,
500mW, 2500mW and 3500mW laser
Benbox A3 to be used with above lasers
Own build A0 with Z-axis with the same lasers
Proxon converted CNC cutter
Various Raspberry PI's (2 & 3)
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wild.bill

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 04:41:41 PM »
you could try blue painter's tape.
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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2017, 04:47:11 PM »
Try Elmer's  Washable School Purple you can get it at staples

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2017, 04:47:36 PM »
>I have printed several objects without any problems thusfar.

But not any big ones...until now if I understand you correctly.

You can try blue tape as wild.bill suggested. Personally I don't like to use it as the surface is too rough but many have good luck with it.

If you bed is glass...also try this: buy the cheapest hair spray you can and spray the glass with several coats. My bed is heated so it drys within 5 secs but on a cold bed I don't know how long it would take. You'll need to spray a fine mist and probably let it dry for 10 mins or more before the next coating. I spray 4 or 5 coats on my glass bed but, as I said, being hot, it drys in 5 secs.

I've had EXCELLENT results using hair spray on a hot glass bed. Not sure how it would work with a non-heated bed.

Well, Bert, try both suggestions and let us know how it goes.
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treinbert

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2017, 06:55:53 PM »
Hi,

I have found one problem with the print. It looks as if there is too much PLA put out and at the higher region the head is banging against the object, when jumping from one part of the piece to another. I'll have to work this out. It does not look like a problem with the bed.
I have held the piece for the last part of the print and it was almost finished. Even holding it firmly the head was shifting it a bit.

The last test was with hairspray and that looks very good for holding the piece, but it cannot hold it when the object is knocked over.
Hartelijke groeten/Best regards/Freundlichen Gruessen,
Bert Mengerink

Prusa I3 clone
Renkforce RF100,
500mW, 2500mW and 3500mW laser
Benbox A3 to be used with above lasers
Own build A0 with Z-axis with the same lasers
Proxon converted CNC cutter
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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2017, 08:53:59 PM »
Bert,

It's not optimum, but the photo shows my brim and skirt (the first layer of my PLA) and how thin they are...I like using orange because I can almost see through it. I don't have any problems with my part being held on the glass bed because I use hairspray but I always lay down brim because I can make dynamic adjustments during this first layer until I get that thin, almost transparent look of the PLA being applied.

While I don't know what you mean by your PLA being 'too much', you can only check it on the first layer because of the contrasting bed color (mine is a black bed under the glass) against the PLA color. If it doesn't look 'transparent' and thin, then it's probably too thick. I don't use black although I have an almost new roll because I discovered I can't easily see how thin and transparent it is on the first pass...black PLA against a black bed it hard to see how thin it is. Yellow works fine and so does bright green but my favorite color to use is orange only because I can easily see that first layer to lay down 'correctly' and know that the part will turn out OK.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:55:37 PM by Administrator »
Admin -- Ralph -- support @ BenCutLaser dot us
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rokemronnie

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2017, 11:04:00 PM »
I agree that Elmer's Purple glue sticks work very well, but then I have a heated bed with PEI so I guess I'm spoiled. Things stick so well I have to use a broad chef's knife to get parts to separate from the bed.

If your Renkforce's bed can't be replaced with a heated bed, you might want to consider putting the printer in an enclosure and heating the enclosure. That would likely heat the bed to whatever temp you have the enclosure at.

A lot of people make enclosures for their printers out of Ikea Lack side tables. I just made one the other day because I didn't like how skewed my quickie 1/4" luan enclosure was. Instead of plywood, for side panels I used some foam core display board from the office supply store. It has a better R value than plywood and is lighter - I used double sided carpet tape to fix it to the legs. After I finished it, I preheated my Prusa printer to ABS settings, 100 deg C on the bed and 255 on the nozzle, and stuck a digital thermometer on the X axis. Once the temp stabilized it was 95 deg inside the enclosure, heated by the bed. If the bed can heat the enclosure, the enclosure can heat the bed.

Off the top of my head, you could probably use a small ceramic space heater or scavenge a Peltier device from a thermoelectric heater/cooler. Those will heat a 48 quart cooler 40 deg hotter than ambient and my enclosure is about that size.

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2017, 11:32:54 AM »
Make sure your bed is clean. I always wipe down the bed with alcohol. Does not matter if it is covered with kapton or blue tape. This removes oils from your hands from the surface.

As your print gets taller the heat source gets further from the bed. As the bed temperature drops prints tend to release from the bed. Your print bed is pretty thin so it looses heat pretty quickly.

Make sure you do not have any air drafts blowing crossed your printer. Put up a cardboard shield around it to keep warm air around the printer.
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treinbert

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2017, 12:05:01 PM »
Thanks all,

The printer is in an enclosure, so no draft.
I will clean the bed properly again.
The last object I printed was low and I could take the bed out by just handling the object, so it stuck very well.

The high object which gave problems was the focus ring from the air assist from thingiverse. This has a relative small rim to stand on.
Hartelijke groeten/Best regards/Freundlichen Gruessen,
Bert Mengerink

Prusa I3 clone
Renkforce RF100,
500mW, 2500mW and 3500mW laser
Benbox A3 to be used with above lasers
Own build A0 with Z-axis with the same lasers
Proxon converted CNC cutter
Various Raspberry PI's (2 & 3)
Windows 10
MAC OSX

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2017, 01:21:33 PM »
Without seeing what your printing, can you rotate your print and try printing it from another position?
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treinbert

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Re: Parts break loose from bed after 1 inch
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2017, 01:48:49 PM »
Hi Ralph,

I will give the print up-side-down a change on monday.
Hartelijke groeten/Best regards/Freundlichen Gruessen,
Bert Mengerink

Prusa I3 clone
Renkforce RF100,
500mW, 2500mW and 3500mW laser
Benbox A3 to be used with above lasers
Own build A0 with Z-axis with the same lasers
Proxon converted CNC cutter
Various Raspberry PI's (2 & 3)
Windows 10
MAC OSX