Author Topic: Why are you not participating  (Read 3172 times)

mrehmus

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Why are you not participating
« on: April 15, 2017, 06:47:17 PM »
If I were a manufacturer's representative on a forum, I would be engaging in discussions where your customers are having problems. Or are you even logging on to the forum?
mrehmus
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Zax

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 07:10:41 PM »
If you are talking about EleksMaker, they are active on their own forum.

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 07:55:00 PM »
He was last here 4 days ago, according to my admin logs...
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mrehmus

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 08:35:29 PM »
I certainly don't remember any comments by him on the product problems. Does he make them? If so, great and I stand corrected.
mrehmus
editor, Model Engine Builder magazine
Elekslaser A3 2.5 watt via Banggood
BCL
Qidi X-one 3D printer
Machine Shop with manual and CNC machines

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 08:40:16 PM »
He has made a total of 17 posts...
Admin -- Ralph -- support @ BenCutLaser dot us
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qv1qee2vb65785t/SetupBenCutLaser3.2a.zip?dl=0
BCL Paid license: $49.95
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nottingham82

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 08:45:46 PM »
There is very little problems here that he addresses.  Most of the problems we (end users) help with.  Most problems are related to setup (belt tension, speed settings, firmware, loose gantries, etc).  A large majority of the users here only have eleksmaker hardware and use aftermarket software designed by other end users.  The negative comments on here are usually about bangood givng people the run around.  Eleksmaker cant do a ton about that.  Bangood is the distributor and their policies (however infurating) are not eleksmakers.  The questions that are specific to eleksmaker are in relation to their new software elekscam.  It is in its infancy and has alot of bugs.  Eleksmaker addresses problems in relation to its software on its own forum http://forum.eleksmaker.com  Z is making regular updates to try and remove all the bugs.  I would consider Elekscam in beta right now.  Give it 6 months and if eleksmaker keeps up it will be a usable software.  Here he mostly just monitors for problems that need his attention, however, there arent many that do need his specific attention.
Laser: 2500mw A5 eleks maker
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Software: T2
http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_290386.html Paid $160 in 2016

ThothLoki

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 09:09:18 PM »
he**, I give Z credit for joining the forum and announcing who he is. That takes guts. I applaud EleksMaker as a company for standing by their products like they do. Albeit, some of the controller boards could use a little work, but they have accepted that and are making changed. They are improving their designs. They are improving their software.
Laser: A5 2000mw with L7 Board / A3 2500mw PWM with Mana SE -- All using T2Laser
3D Printer: Monoprice Maker Select v2.1
Image Resizer Applications (All OS): http://benboxlaser.us/index.php/topic,1434.msg17297.html#msg17297

mrehmus

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 10:30:43 PM »
There is very little problems here that he addresses.  Most of the problems we (end users) help with.  Most problems are related to setup (belt tension, speed settings, firmware, loose gantries, etc).  A large majority of the users here only have eleksmaker hardware and use aftermarket software designed by other end users.  The negative comments on here are usually about bangood givng people the run around.  Eleksmaker cant do a ton about that.  Bangood is the distributor and their policies (however infurating) are not eleksmakers.  The questions that are specific to eleksmaker are in relation to their new software elekscam.  It is in its infancy and has alot of bugs.  Eleksmaker addresses problems in relation to its software on its own forum http://forum.eleksmaker.com  Z is making regular updates to try and remove all the bugs.  I would consider Elekscam in beta right now.  Give it 6 months and if eleksmaker keeps up it will be a usable software.  Here he mostly just monitors for problems that need his attention, however, there arent many that do need his specific attention.

I dispute your statement that there are not many problems that need his attention. The issues that I and others have been chasing are real problems and I've yet to see any contribution by him. And certainly no offers to replace broken components.

If a manufacturer finds their distributor not serving the customers of their products, it is their obligation to step in and make things right. They certainly don't treat their customers as do the manufacturers of my 3D printer who sell it through Amazon. I ordered the printer on a Saturday night from Amazon. Received a thank you e-mail the next day from the manufacturer. Had one failure of a cable in the printer and 4 days later I received a new stepper motor with cable, parts and tools via DHL from China and a video on how to effect the repairs. They did not ask Amazon to make a determination or handle it, they just went ahead and fixed the problem. That is customer service all the way directly from China. They also give us direct e-mail and phone support. The supplied software wasn't beta level either. I am sorry but ELKL appear to be ignoring their customer's legitimate needs. People I talk to about these products are wary of the products exactly because they widely have such a poor reputation for product and support. The market for a good product at this price-point is significant and they are not serving it.

I note that the support by the folks making T2L and BCL is how it should be. Heavy involvement with their customers and offering solutions and ways to make things work as the customer needs. They understand customer support very well.

Furthermore, the help offered here on this forum is very good and very appreciated. But why is it the unpaid who are fixing problems instead of the manufacturer who created them in the first place?

I've worked for a number of companies in Silicon Valley and they all realized that taking care of existing customers makes great commercial sense. If one bought a product from those companies and had a problem with it, the customer knew the support would be there as quickly as possible. This made anyone interested in buying such a product comfortable in purchasing from those companies. They teach these basic truths in business school. Been there, learned that, did that.

/Soapbox mode off/
mrehmus
editor, Model Engine Builder magazine
Elekslaser A3 2.5 watt via Banggood
BCL
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Machine Shop with manual and CNC machines

ThothLoki

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2017, 07:41:11 AM »
I understand your frustration. Please search Z's posts here. From the sounds of it, the older boards did not have an experienced  engineer developing them. Z said they have added to their staff to increase their quality. As for the sellers like Banggood, eleksmaker cannot be help full responsible for some issues. As an example, I ordered a WEN gas generator from amazon and it came covered in oil and the bars bent. It was not WEN's fault for the damage. I contacted amazon and got a new one. I do not blame WEN or amazon. Stuff happens. What made my experience so nice was the quality of customer support from amazon. Banggood is not the best at customer support. What we can do is encourage eleksmaker to sell through better resellers.

Right now you have a few options
- talk with eleksmaker to help improve their products
- continue to converse on this forum so we can all learn
- abandon this inexpensive laser and buy another one that comes with factory support that you pay for

Please keep in mind these machines are very inexpensive and are more of a DIY machine. Thanks again to Ralph for this forum.
Laser: A5 2000mw with L7 Board / A3 2500mw PWM with Mana SE -- All using T2Laser
3D Printer: Monoprice Maker Select v2.1
Image Resizer Applications (All OS): http://benboxlaser.us/index.php/topic,1434.msg17297.html#msg17297

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2017, 07:42:38 AM »
>I note that the support by the folks making T2L and BCL is how it should be.
>Heavy involvement with their customers and offering solutions and ways to make things work as the customer needs.
>They understand customer support very well.

@Zax and I appreciate that recognition very much...thank you...it is a lot of work, especially for @Zax as he spends a lot of time on this forum supporting his customers...I see all the posts he is involved in.

>The help offered here on this forum is very good and very appreciated.
>But why is it the unpaid who are fixing problems instead of the manufacturer who created them in the first place?

As I posted in another thread last week, this forum was started about a year ago because of the poor support coming from China. Like all of you, I bought a DIY laser kit and found support to be lacking. My vendor's support forum was in Chinese, even when I had it in translation mode, so I could not read everything. That's when I decided to create www.BenboxLaser.us and make it a community supported forum. It has taken off and continues to grow. Since then, nothing has changed in regards to support from China. Nothing. But now their users have a good support site to go to and get help!

So I say this to all of the Chinese vendors: I welcome everyone to come here to get their support. The vendors should just push their customers here. This community is now built up and can support everyone...the vendors should just post on their forum to come here.

I recently did a project with the BCL getting it to work with the LaserBot machine. I noticed on their support forum there was really not a lot of threads, not a lot of activity like there is here. I created a post and another user replied and helped me. But no one from the company itself jumped in to help me on their own forum. HOWEVER I must state that when I contacted them for a free LaserBot DIY kit, and told them what I was trying to do (LaserBot/BCL), they did send me one...so I will give them that positive mention. But for support after you receive a product, it looks like they rely on others to provide the support.

I sent an email to the LaserAxe folks asking for a kit so I could make sure BCL will work with it but they never responded. That kind of tells me how interested they are in making sure the LaserAxe will work with other software: Zero. Zip. Nada. Very revealing. They could have responded and just said 'No'. But zero response tells a lot about their support. To paint a complete picture, when they announced their LaserAxe, I had some email exchanges with them asking them to open up their system and allow flashing, allow other Grbl firmware to be used, etc. They did respond and say they would do that and make the source and hex available, but I've heard nothing from them since. It's like they have disappeared.

Like many others, I too don't get it. Reading about the poor experiences on this forum from a vendor, has to have an effect on their sales. You'd think they would want to maximize sales and do everything they can to make their customers happy and get good word of mouth exposure. But that isn't happening. They seemed very focused on making a sale and that's about it.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 07:49:06 AM by Administrator »
Admin -- Ralph -- support @ BenCutLaser dot us
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qv1qee2vb65785t/SetupBenCutLaser3.2a.zip?dl=0
BCL Paid license: $49.95
via Paypal to bclpp@primemail.com

ggallant571

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2017, 07:57:09 AM »
I had zero expectations of any direct reaction by EleksMaker to the opinions expressed here. Perhaps if we had raging positive reviews he would be more active. It is a business geared towards the mass market. Sales numbers are what they respond to.

Suspect that there are other members who work for the industry that just covertly monitor the site.

I for one gave up on ElkesMaker electronics and software and am currently building a replacement electro/mechanical fixture. I got good usage out of the ElkesMaker A5 but will not purchase the larger unit from them. Not worth the time it takes to make it reliable.
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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2017, 08:05:27 AM »
>Sales numbers are what they respond to.

And I believe their sales numbers could be so much more -- if -- they actively supported their product here on this forum and interacted with their customers. But they seem to come here, create some posts and then we don't hear from them again. They are just not engaged with us. Everyone reads that and the fear to buy is still there! That's the bottom line: everyone is still afraid to buy from someone for lack of support.
Admin -- Ralph -- support @ BenCutLaser dot us
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qv1qee2vb65785t/SetupBenCutLaser3.2a.zip?dl=0
BCL Paid license: $49.95
via Paypal to bclpp@primemail.com

ThothLoki

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 08:22:38 AM »
My story is a little different. I bought my laser engraver from a lady in a Sam's Club parking lot. I knew I had no support. Heck, I never knew what brand I was buying or how to use it. I tried the EleksMaker site at that time but it was very lacking. Most google searches pointed me towards Banggood and AliExpress. Obviously they would not be a good place for tech support. I would not expect Amazon to teach how to use my generator. After much more googling, benboxlaser.us came up and it has been "smooth sailing" ever since. This place is the site for proper support.

One of the oldest sales saying. "You get what you pay for".....except for this forum, you get a LOT more.
Laser: A5 2000mw with L7 Board / A3 2500mw PWM with Mana SE -- All using T2Laser
3D Printer: Monoprice Maker Select v2.1
Image Resizer Applications (All OS): http://benboxlaser.us/index.php/topic,1434.msg17297.html#msg17297

ggallant571

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 08:40:05 AM »
Did that lady file a police report regarding a mugging and stolen laser engraver? What else did you come home with? Perhaps Ralph should require a background checks. BTW - my parole officer says I am ready for unescorted trips to the bait shop.
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nottingham82

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Re: Why are you not participating
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 09:40:10 AM »
Very true Loki.  You get what you pay for.  If you want Silicon valley level support you buy a Silicon Valley machine.  The Glowforge looks to be a very full service laser with support.  It also costs $3000.  For a $160 kit I bought from china, I expect China level support (non existent or not in english).  We cant project American business practices on China.  The fact that Eleks even has english speakers (at least 2 that I have noticed z and the ceo) that engage with forum users is surprising to me.  Lets not forget up until a month or so ago, you bought an eleksmaker and there was no software that went with it.  It was a box full of parts, a link to benbox (I didnt even get that), and no instructions on how to put it together.  I think they are moving in the right direction, but then again maybe I just dont expect much from the world.
Laser: 2500mw A5 eleks maker
OS: Windows 10 all in one pc
Software: T2
http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_290386.html Paid $160 in 2016